Curse

Lishy · Jun 01, 2010, 03:29 AM // 03:29

For awhile I've been trying really hard to make Anton useful, but it always feels like something is missing from his skill bar, or that he could better be replaced in my teams. I know for a fact Assassin heroes are not used often and frown upon, but I really want to get some use out of this guy.

Could I have help fitting him onto a team? I'm a warrior and I've tried before to fit him onto a team paired with a curse necro and MM, but it seems he isn't worth replacing an n/rt healer.
I've been running him with these skills since I thought a physical spam would be nice:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry

[Jagged Strike]
[Fox Fangs]
[Golden Phoenix Strike]
[Death Blossom]
[Way of the Assassin]
[Way of Perfection]
[Critical Eye]
[Sharpen Daggers]

However, as you can see, this isn't something too efficient in practice when paired with the other necros, or pretty much any heroes without a good strategy. So I'm asking: Any idea how to make Anton useful?

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 01, 2010, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I see 2 key problems with Assassin heroes.

1) They generally don't chain skills immediately. Whereas a human will think 'there's my lead, follow with the offhand, then follow again with the dual', the hero will think 'hmm, I'll start with the lead, hmm, maybe the offhand next, hmm, maybe the dual' This takes a massive chunk out of their DPS.
2) Unless they can spam DB/MB like their life depends on it, the damage they produce doesn't really justify a slot. This is the issue with physical heroes in general. With physical based teams, it's best to spend the hero slots on buffs, and letting the henchies go mental with them. A good physical buffer hero is significantly better than a physical UNLESS that physical really brings something important to the table, so to speak.

My suggestion: Try making him get in as many attacks as possible to trigger the physical buffs (assuming you're using them) as much as possible. I'm not an Assassin expert, but Locust's Fury seems good for this purpose. If you're not using physical buffs... I really don't know. I would just accept they aren't going to justify their slot.

cellardweller · Jun 01, 2010, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Anton suffers the same issues as the warrior and dervish heroes in that they're melee a melee class but cannot understand positioning. The best way to make them useful is to give them a role that doesn't require them to be in melee range of the enemy (much like orders can make a dervish hero usable). I don't have any suggestions for how to do this, but I'd be looking at the half-range spells assasin spells and signets.

Gennadios · Jun 01, 2010, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Critical Eye + Way of the Master + Disrupting Accuracy + Dual Shot

Even then, I only take my Zenmai out against bosses with extremely long casting, hard to interrupt foes like Kuunavang, Zhu Hanuku, and the Zinn golems.

I wouldn't trust melee sin heroes mostly b/c of the lack of reliable, fast recharge shadowstep-2-party skills to get them out of the trouble they very often find themselves in.

NerfHerder · Jun 01, 2010, 08:22 AM // 08:22

A while back I got REALLY bored of just running discord. So for the fun of it I starting running N/Rt SoLS Healer a Jagged Bones Prot/Dwayna's Sorrow and whatever profession I was. It wasnt as effective as Discordway but it was enough to get around with, even in some HM areas. I came up with almost the exact build you did for Anton when I'm on my Assassin.
Anton
But if you taking H/H, you could also take a chance since your a Warrior and bring an ER Protter and Orders, but I find its still not as effective.

ashes · Jun 01, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58

A/D Scythe Spammer maybe? - Worked for me

distilledwill · Jun 01, 2010, 09:08 AM // 09:08

As people have said, I'm sure you've heard all the criticisms of Sin/Melee heroes. But here goes with what I used to use on Zenmai:

Wounding Strike [E]
Mystic Sweep
Chilling Victory
Malicious Strike
Disrupting Dagger
Critical Eye
Way of the Master
Resurrection Signet

When paired with a SoH hero (usually a signet of spirits rit or smite monk), the damage is pretty good. But he still has all the problems of normal melee heroes.

loopysnoopy · Jun 01, 2010, 09:52 AM // 09:52

My master sin
I'm a warrior my team for when i started NF was a mesmer,heal,and a sin
this is what i ran on the sin. OwBk0pe0HOuj+bA6wcZEw4s/DhB
the build is this if my code doesn't work
Crit eye
Crit defense
Jagged strike
Shadow refuge
Way of perfection
Elite Way of the Assassin
Wild strike
Twisted fangs
Deadly arts 4,Shadow arts 8 with a minor rune added,Dagger mastery Major rune added,Crit strikes minor rune added

this is my first post i hope this helps

Lishy · Jun 01, 2010, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Do sins really know how to manage Critical Defense properly though? I can't test atm, but I am curious about their defenses since I hear that's their greatest flaw.

loopysnoopy · Jun 01, 2010, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

Do sins really know how to manage Critical Defense properly though? I can't test atm, but I am curious about their defenses since I hear that's their greatest flaw.

my sin hero's dnt seem to have any trouble using those skills i have all hero's skill bars up so i can watch wots doing wot crit defense does go up only 1 trouble i did have they lacked power against aoe damage.

Hugh Manatee · Jun 12, 2010, 07:46 PM // 19:46

On my warrior, since I have SY! I can pretty much take whatever i want and stompsquishfragroll pretty much anything, so I figured I'd take stuff that would support that. I had Anton and Zenmai set up as A/P with simple dagger chains(jagged, fox fangs, DB), one with seeping wound and one with a daze skill(i forget which) or it might have been one of the shroud hexes... and Inspirational Speech, which I figured out that heroes will spam like crazy in a fight and you can micro between fights to stay pumped all the time. Since then I always have at least 1 /P hero in my parties, sometimes up to 3. No bull, I was running a decapitate bar the other day, never wanting for adrenaline cause the little dudes were speeching me on recharge.

Xenomortis · Jun 12, 2010, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

I see 2 key problems with Assassin heroes...

There are two even bigger, more fundamental problems you've missed:

1. The AI for melee is rubbish.
2. 70 AL.

Heroes and henchmen are terrible at melee - I mean really, really bad.
The fact they're also basically squishy makes things worse and means you essentially need to keep Prot Spirit on them. The possible rewards generally aren't worth it.

Lanier · Jun 12, 2010, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Iv never really had problems with henchies/heroes in melee. Usually the minions pick up aggro over melee npcs anyway. I typically bring a melee henchy with me.

When I run a sin hero, I run a standard JS->FF->DB chain with Way of the Assassin and some utility skills (interupts, KDs, conditions, etc.) While heroes dont spam a chain like a human would, they arn't really bad at it either. The sin will chain his skills, he just won't always spam them as fast as he can.

Xenomortis · Jun 12, 2010, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Iv never really had problems with henchies/heroes in melee. Usually the minions pick up aggro over melee npcs anyway. I typically bring a melee henchy with me.

The AI has issues on target selection and will frequently run between you and the target when you what them to attack. Their skill usage is rather poor as well.
Then there's the fact that the henchmen physicals are all aggressive and will frequently run off to attack something you'd rather not.
Minions are often attacked first but don't hold for too long.

Cuilan · Jun 12, 2010, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I really like the assassin hero signet build from [Rare], but I had to replace Frenzy because I was using it on a non-ele character.